0:00:43 Ben Wright: Well, Jemimah, I can happily say that so far the cyclone hasn’t hit. I don’t think it’s too far away. Forecast last night was we have currently Category four downgrading to category two.
0:00:58 Jemimah Ashleigh: We’re at a two now. Yep.
0:00:59 Ben Wright: Yeah. Hitting landfall in a couple of days. But the show must go on. And we are back here recording Friends in business episode 27 today. So welcome.
0:01:08 Jemimah Ashleigh: Thank you for having me. It was a bold choice for us to go. You know what we should do right now? Visit us in a cyclone. Thank you for the invite. Appreciate that.
0:01:16 Ben Wright: Love that.
0:01:17 Jemimah Ashleigh: And we did decide there was that moment where we went, is this a good idea? Because is it a good idea traveling up? I could end up having to move in here, and I basically do every time we record anyway.
0:01:30 Ben Wright: Yeah, my little one loves you. Amali loves hanging out with you. Look, it is quite different, right? As you’re going through life, you have lots of different challenges, but would I expect to say that there’s a cyclone that’s potentially hitting Sunshine coast and Brisbane? Not something that would have been on my list of things, but, wow, you just. No matter what life throws at you, you learn so many different things. And in this instance, there are so many pieces of advice coming our way around how to handle a cyclone, right? Don’t swim, don’t. Don’t go out riding. Don’t stand under fallen trees, right? Where are you going to go if the cyclone hits, right? Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
0:02:04 Jemimah Ashleigh: The radio this morning was, I stole your car, as you would know. This morning. You went for a bike ride. I went for a run. And I was listening to the radio on the way down to the beach to do a run there. And I just was surprised about the amount of information that was like, here’s where you get your sandbags. Don’t go in the ocean. And then what I saw was 1,000 people having a surf and having the time of their lives of these massive ways, just like, this is the greatest day of my life. : And the other people was like, oh, don’t go on the roads and people just out there living their best lives. And don’t get me wrong, we’re very safe at the moment. There’s not a problem when we’ve got a couple of days before landfall. But the advice is very different from what people were doing.
0:02:44 Ben Wright: Yeah. And I think that advice is very relative to your skill set. So when we talk about don’t go in the water. I’ve done lots and lots of swimming across my life, and I’m down at the beach and right now there’s no problem for me getting in the water. But I’m an experienced swimmer, and experienced surfers would look at that and go, there’s no problem being out in the surf.
0:03:02 Jemimah Ashleigh: That’s a Tuesday for them.
0:03:03 Ben Wright: Right, exactly right. If you said to me, don’t go and surf now, there is absolutely no way I’m getting in the water because my surfing skills are pretty average. Right. So to get in the water, a, it means different things to me, but B, it also means different things depending on your experiences in certain aspects of life. And today we’re actually going to talk about the better pieces of advice that we’ve had across our careers. And look, for me, when we were thinking about this topic, I could bring up 10, 15, 20 years. No doubt you can. So we tried to think about the two or three each that have had a really tangible impact. So they might not have made the biggest impact at the point in time, but the tangible impact over an extended period of time. Right. Almost like behaviors that you can live by from these pieces of advice. So that’s my topic that I brought up today.
0:03:54 Jemimah Ashleigh: Love it.
0:03:54 Ben Wright: This is one we’ve had to prepare for. This is not a topic where I think we can stand here and say we’re experienced enough to just do this off the cuff.
0:04:01 Jemimah Ashleigh: There was a really big discussion about. And it was. We both kind of had to go to loan zones to go and think about, respectively, and go, what is a piece of advice? I mean, because if you said to me, now write down 100 pieces of advice, it could be like, don’t go in the water where there’s a shark there. I could give you some tear. Have you gotten terrible of asking people before?
0:04:19 Ben Wright: I’ve got both bad advice and I’ve.
0:04:21 Jemimah Ashleigh: Also got different podcast episodes. Let’s do that.
0:04:23 Ben Wright: We should do that.
0:04:24 Jemimah Ashleigh: Worst advice.
0:04:25 Ben Wright: But I’ve also got good pieces of advice that were not relevant to me. So it’s filtering through the bits of advice that actually work for you. Perhaps they’re not relevant, then perhaps they’re not relevant forever. But so today we’re going to go through three bits of advice each that have stood the test of time with us. And one thing I will say is there’s going to be a little bit of contradictory conversation here because one of our pieces, each in particular, I think for me is relevant at different points in time in our lives, but is the polar opposite. Right. Of the pieces of advice. So, Jemimah, I’m going to throw to you. Let’s go, one each. What’s your first piece of advice that stood the test of time with you as being fantastic?
0:05:03 Jemimah Ashleigh: My first one is done is better than perfect.
0:05:06 Ben Wright: So done is better than perfect. Cool. Explain.
0:05:10 Jemimah Ashleigh: So huge advocate for this because one of the things I can often get really stuck in. And I see this a lot with my clients too, Ben. I see it all the time of it’s not perfect and I’m not ready. It’s not perfect. So I’m just going to wait. I don’t feel like I have every single piece of information before I can action it. I’m not ready to send out these social media posts because it feels like it’s only 90% where I want it to be. I didn’t quite get 100% the filter I wanted on that photo. Therefore I’m not going to post anything. That award application is probably not going to win. I won’t even bother entering. It’s this. We dress perfectionism up in shiny shoes and we, like, make it. It has to be perfect all the time. That’s no fun. No one wants to invite perfectionism to the pool party. You know, I think there is a time and place where perfectionism absolutely. Getting tax done, doing finances, doing a bank loan, doing a legal document. It has to be right for a social media post or a press release or a award application. Maybe 90% enough.
0:06:12 Ben Wright: Yeah. I have certainly had periods in my life where I felt that I couldn’t hit close to perfection in something, so it actually stopped me doing it altogether. Whereas for me, and I work off progress over perfection.
0:06:25 Jemimah Ashleigh: Yeah.
0:06:26 Ben Wright: That when you make those little steps and you slowly, inch by inch, centimeter by centimeter, take steps forward, that takes you one step closer to perfection.
0:06:33 Jemimah Ashleigh: Yeah. Great.
0:06:34 Ben Wright: So if you’re happy to have that as a goal, I think it’s fantastic. But if you’re waiting.
0:06:39 Jemimah Ashleigh: And you’re never going to feel ready, and I think there is this moment where you have to realize maybe it’s not important, maybe that social media post can just go out even if it is 85, 90% where you want it to be, this is not going to end anything. And you’re getting in your own way. It’s another way of saying, I don’t feel ready. I feel like I need to be perfect.
0:06:59 Ben Wright: Okay, great. So that is almost saying for those listening, it’s take those steps forward. Right. Done is better than perfect, which means you’re moving in the right direction towards your goals. All right, Fantastic. I really like that. Shall we jump on to one from me?
0:07:14 Jemimah Ashleigh: I can hear yours.
0:07:15 Ben Wright: Excellent. Okay. One of the favourites, when it comes, I’m going to move to one that’s at an emotional level because I think I’ve shared pretty openly that I’ve had challenges across my business journey that emotionally have probably impacted me more than intellectually. That’s where I’ve had my big challenges. And for me, this too shall pass is one of my favorites.
0:07:33 Jemimah Ashleigh: This too shall pass. I really love this, Ben, for multiple reasons because it swings both ways, right? If you’re in a really bad time, this too shall pass. But if it’s going really well, just wait. Something else is going to go wrong a little bit. In a good way. Like, time will change everything. You just have a good time in the worst time in the world. Just wait.
0:07:55 Ben Wright: Yeah. The way I use it, the way it’s been really effective for me and I learned this from one of my coaches, Josie Thompson. In fact, I don’t think she told me, but she actually put me onto a. Where I learn it myself. And, hey, Josie, if you’re listening, but Josie, fantastic when it comes to that prefrontal cortex of the brain, right. All those ways you’re trying to think. And for me, the way that this too shall pass is really effective for me is that when I’m in the moment and things are really, really bad, right. I’m in the cyclone and the waves are around me and I’m struggling to get out of that water. Right. For example, to be able to pause and remember that this is a moment in time that will pass through, it’s rarely as bad as it seems. Actually helps me then think through that bit to the future. So fantastic for me in really difficult business times or when I’m doing something that’s challenging. And yes, on the flip side, that this too shall pass reminds me when things are going well that you’re only a moment away from being back in the pack. And that then allows me to actually work really incredibly hard.
0:08:49 Jemimah Ashleigh: Yeah. And I think there is this beautiful moment that, you know, this is the human experience a little bit. I think we do have that moment where when it’s bad, and I know we’re going to deeper dive into that, I’m sure in different episodes, but when it is bad and things aren’t going 100%, we have to remember that the human experience isn’t always meant to be joy. It isn’t meant to always be happy. It’s actually a fairly neutral experience. You’ve got to go and find the gratitude and the love when things are going really well to recognize it’s going really well. And when it’s bad, to know it’s finite.
0:09:19 Ben Wright: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So we’re compartmentalizing through this too shall pass. All right, fantastic. What else have you got?
0:09:26 Jemimah Ashleigh: One of my favorite. We’re hitting controversial territory now. So this is when I raised a bed in the kitchen and he said, mine’s the opposite. I was like, let’s go. You have to know when to stop. As an actual perfectionist at times, I have had to learn to consistently close the laptop. There is always going to be something to do. I know you and I take time out to record these episodes that it involves me jumping on a plane that we spend like a day recording. We do some stuff together and it’s a really fun experience. But we both have competing priorities outside of this. And where I think we can get really stuck is that we could both happily sit at our laptops till midnight doing work. Probably not happily. Happily is probably an exaggeration. We’d probably not like each other very much. But we have things to do always. You have to know when to stop.
0:10:17 Ben Wright: Yeah. Setting boundaries.
0:10:19 Jemimah Ashleigh: Yeah. And know when to turn the phone off. And to be like, this is a tomorrow problem. That you do need to take time off. And as business owners and professionals, we. There’s always something to do.
0:10:31 Ben Wright: So what does that look like for you? How do you create those boundaries?
0:10:34 Jemimah Ashleigh: Boundaries for me has been something I’ve had to build over time. This was not. I’m going to set a boundary now. It was learning. Weekends are now sacred. That. And immediately in the next breath I will tell you, sometimes that doesn’t apply. Sometimes there are competing priorities. And that Saturday, unfortunately, now belongs to the office. But you owe yourself time off later. It is knowing that when the alarm goes at 5:30, 6 o’clock in the morning, you’ve got to get up and go and move the body and go and take time. That is a sacred boundary I had to set in place because there’s nothing stopping me from starting work at 5:30 in the morning these days.
0:11:08 Ben Wright: Yeah. Yeah. Okay, great. Well, I previously did follow exactly that same case. Right. Which is, in fact, I have worked a lot of weekends when I have my businesses and I ended up compartmentalizing around days and hours. I take a slightly different approach now, which works for me. Right. Probably a little bit different because I’ve got child. Right. So what I now do is I actually slot in the important parts that are outside of work. So for me, it’s. I do some drop off pickups. We have swimming lessons, we have jiu jitsu, little ones in there, a choker hold. She’s been teaching dad the last couple of days. My exercise, my time with Shaina, which is really difficult, actually. That’s one we need to get better at everything else that it’s in there. I put all of those into my diary and then work fills around it and then. So if I’m working a little bit later or starting a little bit earlier, I’m more relaxed about it because I’m putting in the key pieces of the rest of my life that I need to get done with some hard boundaries that says essentially I’ll only work eight weekends if. Right.
0:12:07 Jemimah Ashleigh: So if the situation meets this requirement. Yeah. Someone explained this to me once as the rocks, the pebbles in the sand that your rocks are the.
0:12:15 Ben Wright: That was me.
0:12:16 Jemimah Ashleigh: Was that you?
0:12:17 Ben Wright: I’m taking credit for that one. Yeah, yeah. I remember these conversations.
0:12:20 Jemimah Ashleigh: I genuinely believe it wasn’t you, but I. All right, then you can have.
0:12:25 Ben Wright: We can have a debate about this another time.
0:12:27 Jemimah Ashleigh: The rocks pebble and said this is that you have the rocks and you want your life around. And so yours are, you know, I know how much you love taking your daughter to swimming classes.
0:12:34 Ben Wright: Yeah.
0:12:35 Jemimah Ashleigh: Love that. It was like, you can’t come Friday, swimming classes are happening. Or you can, but you’re coming to a swimming class.
0:12:40 Ben Wright: Yeah, yeah. I’ve got an hour and a half I carve out. Yeah. And I think that’s very reasonable. And certainly society today is far more understanding of the positive impact you can have from having a really happy team member rather than a team member that complies with the organization. Okay. So my second piece of advice, this was actually from my father. And look, I don’t think it contradicts what you’ve said, but it certainly provides a slightly different perspective. And that’s why do tomorrow what you can do today.
Now, that doesn’t necessarily mean work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work the whole time. Right. But what it does mean is don’t put things off. Don’t delay making progress. Because the moment you make progress, that’s the moment you can then continue towards perfection. For example, right? If we know that taking one step further forward every day, right. 300 or 275 days a year, what do we got? 265 working days in a year. If we can take 265 steps forward, they are all going to grow incrementally off each other.
0:13:40 Jemimah Ashleigh: You genuinely for a second then thought you didn’t know how many days were in the year. I was like, is this guy joking? And now I’ve realized you’re talking about working days.
0:13:47 Ben Wright: Working days. Yes. So back to this chain of thought, right? So if we’re taking one step forward, the step forward we take in 12 months time at a cumulative level is far greater than the step we’re taking forward today. Because they’re building, right? It’s exponential what you build. So the longer you delay that, the longer you’re waiting on that cumulative growth. So that doesn’t mean why do tomorrow what you can do today? That doesn’t mean keep working every night until midnight. But it does mean things that are important make time to do them. And for me, as a busy, busy, busy business owner, it is critical that I focus on what’s most important.
0:14:24 Jemimah Ashleigh: I love this idea because I would frame it. I love how we both like got our little flavors, but we’re just agreeing with each other on this. This just is so reminiscent to me of the book Atomic Habits. This idea of 1% difference every day doing that 1% thing. How many times. I’m going to ask you a loaded question here. Do you wake up every morning at 5:15 when you’re. I think your alarm goes off about 5.
0:14:47 Ben Wright: Yeah. Yeah. I’m getting earlier in here
0:14:51 Jemimah Ashleigh: My friends up here, up at 5:15. I was like, oh God, I’ve got to get up now and go for a run.
0:14:54 Ben Wright: Yeah, Well, I was gonna say I’m getting there. It’s even earlier now. But let’s work off 5, 5:15, let’s say 5:15.
0:14:59 Jemimah Ashleigh: So your alarm goes every morning when that happens, are you so excited to jump out of bed to go out in the rain? Potential cyclonic weather that we’re having.
0:15:10 Ben Wright: Yeah, Rain and wind.
0:15:11 Jemimah Ashleigh: Yeah. You’re very excited to do that every morning?
0:15:13 Ben Wright: Of course not.
0:15:15 Jemimah Ashleigh: This is where I truly believe there is an . There is a discussion that we just don’t have enough, that you’re never gonna feel like it. That there are times where you have to Actually parent yourself. There are times where you have to go, this is good for you. I don’t love running. I don’t hate it. Actually. Really don’t like it. I’m asthmatic, not very fast. But do you know what I do love about the next 10 hours afterwards?
0:15:39 Ben Wright: Yeah, yeah. There’s a great feeling post running. Yeah.
0:15:42 Jemimah Ashleigh: But I think there is this moment where if you just do the thing. I remember hearing the Rock talk about this of like it’s the act of going to the gym rather than what you do at the gym. You have to go every day because I don’t care if you go and read a magazine, you have to go. It’s this act that this is who I am. That identity that we build of that 1% behavior every day. Doing the thing you need to do.
0:16:03 Ben Wright: Yeah, yeah. Tab. It’s 21 days. Get it right.
0:16:04 Jemimah Ashleigh: Yeah.
0:16:05 Ben Wright: Three. Lots of 21 to embed it. The Atomic Habits book right there is. We could talk about this forever, but today is meant to be short and punchy about these bits of advice. Okay, so you wanted to run through three, Yeah.
0:16:15 Jemimah Ashleigh: I’ve got one more. Are you ready? This one is a little, probably a little bit more skewed to the female population who have children or have want to have relationships or sort of the homemaker women in the group probably. You can have it all, but you can’t have it at the same time.
0:16:32 Ben Wright: Oh, okay, explain that. Break it down, please.
0:16:35 Jemimah Ashleigh: So I believe one of the things we’re always told is you can have everything, you can have it all, you can have children, you have a house, you can have partner, you can get married, you can have gorgeous house, a five bedroom house. You can have 45 bathrooms, 17 dogs, sheep farm, a thriving career, go to university, be a yoga expert, write a TV show. You can do it all.
0:16:56 Ben Wright: We get the point, Jemimah.
0:16:58 Jemimah Ashleigh: But you can’t do it all at the same time.
0:17:00 Ben Wright: Right.
0:17:01 Jemimah Ashleigh: And because one thing that I see a lot, particularly with the females that I work with, and a lot of my clients coming through are just feeling like they’re failing at one. If you’re thriving in one area, they tend to be falling down in one area. So one of my clients recently said to me, this is how this piece of advice really came back into the forefront. You can be absolutely killing it in business, which is like I keep missing my kids dance recital or if I’m at my kids dance recital, I’m missing that very important merger deal that’s happening at the moment. And I know that you’ll relate to this on a level as well. But you can have everything. You just can’t have everything at the same time. And you have to learn to be okay with that.
0:17:39 Ben Wright: Why can’t you have a successful business and a successful family life? Is that what I’m hearing you say?
0:17:44 Jemimah Ashleigh: I think you can. I just think you’re going to have moments where one of them has got to give a little bit. But also if you’re having that, how’s your social life going? How’s that dream that you have of becoming a yoki? I don’t think you can take a mile to school in the morning, work 10 hour day in a thriving business, come home, cook dinner, clean a house, do yoga, go for run. I think you can do everything all at once. I think you have to prioritize. I think coming back to the rocks, pebbles and sand a bit here, but also, do you have to do it all? I think we were sold that you can do everything. What do you actually want to do?
0:18:22 Ben Wright: Okay, so I asked a provocative question and I probably actually, I think I really want to challenge you on this. Right. Because for me, the question I asked was why can’t you have a thriving business and a happy family? I disagree with that. I think you can have both. Right. And I think you disagreed with it as well. I think the point that I want to make sure, or I want to clarify with you is when we say we can’t have it all, it doesn’t mean we can’t have. This is what I think you’re saying. It doesn’t mean that you think we can’t have a great family life, be fit and healthy and have a thriving business. However, what we can’t have is 100% of all three.
0:19:00 Jemimah Ashleigh: We are only 100%. You’re 100% right Ben, because we are only 100%. And sometimes your work needs 80% of you and therefore only 20% is able to turn up in these other areas. So I think it is. You just, you’re not going to nail it 100% of the time.
0:19:16 Ben Wright: Yeah. So. And I think that for me is the important. And I might have taken the first piece, you said the wrong way. Right. The important piece of advice I think I’m hearing from you is you can certainly have all the important things you want in your life with a general approach to that, but at every single point in time, you’re not going to have everything necessarily aligned. And there are micro sacrifices which sometimes lead to larger sacrifices that you have to make. For periods of time that allow you to build what you want out of life. But if you’re aiming for perfection in everything you’re doing in life, you’re going to struggle there. So be comfortable that sometimes you need to make compromises.
0:19:51 Jemimah Ashleigh: And I do see this a lot where people have to make that compromise of, you know, you want to go to the swimming lesson. You know what, you’re not going to be able to go to that meeting.
0:20:00 Ben Wright: Yeah.
0:20:00 Jemimah Ashleigh: Send a representative or send a staff member to that.
0:20:02 Ben Wright: Yeah, yeah. This morning I wanted to get a couple of hours out on the bike, which meant I didn’t really get to see my daughter. It was a quick goodbye. When I got home this morning, I didn’t get that. Now, would I do that every morning of the week? No. I would sacrifice some of my fitness to make sure I see my daughter or I would sacrifice some of seeing my daughter in the mornings to be able to say that, please, people, don’t take that the wrong way. I love spending time with my daughter. All right. But sometimes you got to blend it off. All right. We could go down a rabbit hole there. And I think that one potentially will. Right. Controversial comments.
Last one for me, very much business related here. And that is work out what you’re really good at and supplement those skills with people who are good around what you aren’t. Right. So there’s no catch cry here. There’s no amazing phrase. But what essentially says is as you grow, as you’re starting, this is particularly out for people that are either great individual contributors or and are learning then how to lead. Or people who have smaller businesses and are learning how to scale is work out how you’re gonna scale your business. And for me or your team. Right. And for me that starts with what you’re really good at. You can probably hold onto for longer. And then you start to fill the gaps around you with those areas you’re not so good at. Right. You don’t need to go and learn everything. I have a really strong background in numbers, risk management and sales. Right. They’re my really strong pieces when it comes to operations and systems from a tech IT point of view. Right. As in building out the tech you need to scale your business. I will outsource those. So for me, it’s just
0:21:29 Jemimah Ashleigh: I’d rather cut my own toe off than deal with a little.
0:21:31 Ben Wright: And there are people who would the same in reverse when it comes to doing sales. Right. So for me, the first thing I always do is start to fill those functions. I’m not so strong at. Right. And then the second challenge is then how do you scale what you’re really good at? Right. Because that’s the bit that creates value in businesses is when you unlock yourself as the key person.
0:21:53 Jemimah Ashleigh: Yeah, I love that. I really like this one because I think it also challenges a little bit. How about how we hire people that instead of hiring, like a chief marketing person, find out what you want to get rid of. Like, you might be really good at one part of marketing and love that and thrive in that, but also I just want to get rid of the rest of it. So I think. Yeah, I love that piece. I’m not even. I’ve got no comment.
0:22:14 Ben Wright: But there’s a little piece you said that I think is worth just dabbling on it for a second. It’s sometimes it’s just not what you’re not necessarily as strong at. But also some tasks that don’t fire you up that you don’t enjoy doing. Right. They are absolutely really strong pieces.
Okay, so we’ve had three pieces. Each are great bits of advice that have stuck with us for a long period of time. Would you mind repeating what yours were.
0:22:35 Jemimah Ashleigh: Done is better than perfect.
0:22:36 Ben Wright: Yes.
0:22:36 Jemimah Ashleigh: You have to know when to stop. And you can have everything, but you can’t. You can’t have it all at once.
0:22:40 Ben Wright: Done is better than perfect. You need to know when to stop. You can have everything, but you can’t have it all at once. Excellent.
Okay, so my three were, why do tomorrow what you can do today?
0:22:53 Jemimah Ashleigh: Controversial.
0:22:54 Ben Wright: This too shall pass. And my third one was work out what you’re good at or what fires you up, and then build teams around you for the rest.
0:23:05 Jemimah Ashleigh: There’s a great piece of advice.
0:23:07 Ben Wright: Great. So we’ve got six pieces there. I think the challenge coming out of today for everyone listening as Jemimah chuckles away at me, is sit down if you get a moment. In fact, let me change that. Why do tomorrow what you can do today. Sit down today and just take a couple of minutes to think from those pieces of advice. One, have a look at one of those that might be able to impact your business or your team or you as a sole contributor and make some changes to it. If you’re wondering about how you can do that, it’s really easy to get in contact with Jemimah and I. We’re all over the podcast contacts. You can find us on social media. We’ve set this podcast up to be your friends in business, which we want to be doing. So please get in contact with us, please.
But until then, we’re your Friends in Business. We’ll see you next week.
0:23:53 Jemimah Ashleigh: See ya.
